Thoughts on dredge hate as a dredge player

I am not a professional or particularly good Dredge player, but this is my observation with regards to graveyard hate against Dredge. Not all of them deal with the graveyard exactly, some of them attack other areas instead. Also am not familiar with LED Dredge, the most popular form of Dredge currently if I’m not wrong, and thus am not sure how effective these are against LED Dredge. Note that every hate, weak or strong, is still hate and thus I hate them! :P

Tormod’s Crypt: Immune to anti-hate hate, you can crack it in response to casting of Pithing Needle which is the only counter I can think of. The problem is when to crack it? Dredge will slow-roll it out and give the impression of “I’m not threatening yet so don’t crack it” while actually gaining zombies. Personally I think it can be activated on two Bridges, Ichorids, Trolls (?) or in response to a draw spell, forcing the Dredge player to actually draw. Best with aggro decks I think, because forcing a slow Dredge usually means you can keep the zombie count low and beat in with better creatures.

Relic of Progenitus: Not as common as Crypt, but IMO it is one of the worst. Turn 1 Relic is basically Leyline because the Dredger will be picked off, unless I am able to pitch two Dredgers. It is good against slow Dredging because the tap ability can continuously take out key cards in early stages such as Bridges and Ichorids. Then it can act as a Crypt when there is need for it to, and has the bonus of cantrip. At the cost of 1 colourless mana it is somewhat resistant against Claim and Chain. It’s probably not as good against LED Dredge though, because LED can flood the graveyard and combo off before the opponent gets to untap for mana. Crypt will be better in that case.

Nihil Spellbomb: I think it is inferior to Crypt, unless you’re running Tarmogoyf or black.

Grafdigger’s Cage: More devastating to LED than to LEDless I think. It can be drawn and cast and affects a developed graveyard, but otherwise I think it’s worse than Leyline because I can still Dredge, or like Leyline I can hit it with Nature’s Claim.

Surgical Extraction is pretty devastating because it will almost always hit all four copies of the target and is instant so it can spring out on top of Dread Return or Cabal Therapy. First target will likely be Bridges, then Ichorids, then as an instant response to Narcomoeba(e?). Very good against Flame-Kin Zealot/Elesh Norn decks, and you can Extract the DR target itself. It really lives up to its name since it hits what is needed and hits all of that, like a needle inside the deck.

Extirpate is inferior to Extraction, because of the mana cost. The Split Second is not useful because Dredge probably doesn’t run Force of Will.

Bojuka Bog is not very popular. As a land it can’t be hit by Cabal Therapy, but otherwise I think it isn’t that great compared to Tormod’s Crypt. It is sorcery speed and uses up a land-drop, coming in tapped to boot.

Ravenous Trap is also not very popular, but almost every time you should always be able to cast it for 0. It is great as a mind game I think, because you can let it sit in your hand for a while and fool the opponent into thinking you have no hate after all, then spring it out on a draw spell. However I think it is not good to run it as the main graveyard hate as the Dredge player will cast Therapy for it. Really dependent on your mind gaming ability IMO.

Faerie Macabre: Weaker than Extraction I think. It hits two targets instantly which is great during the early stages of Dredging. Can be Therapied but usually no one sees it coming. Better than Extraction at picking off DR targets since you just need to hit that one and then target a Bridge or something. Has the benefit of being immune to FoW…?

Leyline of the Void: One of the most common hate. Personally I think it is somewhat easy to get around, unless the opponent has double Leyline (double anything is terrible IMO. I must have Nature’s Claim in hand, but that’s a given in games 2 and 3 and once I have the Claim, I can get around it. Not to mention Chain of Vapor deals with it in a non-black deck as well.

Planar Void: Only used in decks with black mana, but I think it is a better hate than Leyline. It dies to Claim like Leyline, but is resistant against Chain of Vapor. The turn 1 play is alright IMO if the hate involved shuts down the Dredge deck. Once you have the hate, you can do anything you want, or at the very least you’ve delayed the dredging by one turn, kind of like a Time Walk.

Moat: Can randomly appear maindeck and wreck game 1, but Nature’s Claim takes care of it. Furthermore, Iona, Sphinx, Flayer of the Hatebound and the tiny Narco can get around it.

Ghostly Prison, Elephant Grass: Weak to Claim, but the 2 mana prohibition usually hinders every creature already, plus Elephant Grass shuts the zombies down flat.

Yixlid Jailer: Is great since it shuts down all abilities and requires Darkblast to kill. If it has to die it at least takes out all the Bridges. If it comes down on turn 2 it’s good enough against LEDless I think. Not sure about LED.

Jotun Grunt: If he comes down too early he dies due to insufficient food. If he comes down late he will be too slow, I have a turn to spam everything I have. When he dies he takes out the Bridges though, and his 4/4 body is sometimes relevant. Needs to appear just before the stage when DR or zombie spam isn’t ready.

Thalia: !!!!!!!!! Thalia is unexpectedly powerful. Every draw spell and Darkblast becomes two mana. Even worse she can appear maindeck in Maverick or D&T and so you can lose game 1 because of her, plus she will stay there and the opponent will board in his real hate. The only draw that can get around it is Cephalid Coliseum, which means one less land which is not what I want against Thalia. Not to mention she is 2/1 with first strike!!! LED has a better shot against her I think, but again she isn’t the “main” hate, so you will have something else for LED.

Lodestone Golem, Thorn of Amethyst: Same as Thalia. Is vulnerable to Nature’s Claim but their abilities affect it as well.

Scavenging Ooze: Not as devastating as Thalia IMO. Best when it appears in a mid-developed graveyard and machineguns things down. Will always play Thalia before it. LED might be able to race it, however it sticks around and grows big, which is a problem. One of the more common threats recently.

That’s all that I can think of. So based on my experience, the most horrible ones are Relic, Surgical Extraction and Thalia. They have strong impacts and are common. Thoughts?